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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 503 for the 10th of June

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2018 not July and I think last week on

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the show I said I said the month was

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July getting ahead of myself it's June

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this is the 10th of June

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unless you're listening in the United

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States when this comes out when it's the

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9th of June or the magic of time zones I

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know cuz I'm in that time zone right now

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I'm not in the 10th of June time zone

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I'm in the 9th of June time zone but

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this is the skeptic zone for the 10th of

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June and you think that we have trouble

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now just wait till people start

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traveling near the speed of light and

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they have to deal with the ridiculous

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time zones hmm

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jet lag is bad enough as it is what are

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they gonna call that time lag light lag

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time zone jet lag lag lag blegh boggles

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the mind and I hope this week's episode

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of the skeptics on will also boggle the

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mind we're going to start with catch up

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with Michael Marshall from the good

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thinking society in the UK with news

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news on a victory a court victory

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against homeopathy very interesting and

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very good news coming out of the UK all

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those details coming up with Michael

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Marshall following that a short promo

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for an upcoming talk in Sydney with my

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old friend dr. Angela matki the

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emergency physician dr. Angie's going to

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be in Australia and we're lucky enough

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to have her talk at the skeptics in the

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pub in Sydney then we have Maynard at

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skeptics in the pub I was I was here in

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the Bay Area just arrived in fact half

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asleep but over in Sydney they had

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skeptics in the pub I was texting

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Maynard a few things and he was running

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around with his microphone asking

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skeptics the big question do you think

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skeptics can learn anything from the

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believers in the paranormal some

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interesting answers and then may not

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interviews dr. Brad Makai who was the

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guest speaker at skeptics in the pub

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wide-ranging sort of rambling interview

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in true Maine

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art-style many topics covered including

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Brad's opinion on drug use very

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interesting always good to hear from dr.

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Brad Makai on the sceptic zone now if

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you are in the Bay Area tomorrow Sunday

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the 10th which is today in Sydney just

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ignore all that timezone stuff Sunday

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the temp in Berkeley in California we

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have skeptical at skeptic Alcon dot-com

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and I've just been told by my good

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friend Eugenie Scott that tickets will

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be available at the door so if you

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haven't bought your tickets yet don't

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worry you can turn up and still enjoy

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the day tomorrow or if you go to skip

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decal con-com links on the show notes

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you can buy tickets online if you wish

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looking forward to that very much in

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less than 24 hours as I'm recording and

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if you're coming along I certainly look

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forward to seeing you there and I will

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also be at The Skeptical pre-conference

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skeptics in the pub and that's starting

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at about 7 p.m. on Saturday the 9th of

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June the day I'm recording this message

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in this time zone bear with me and

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that's at Carmel restaurant at 20:20

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Shattuck Avenue Berkeley and that would

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be great to see you there too who knows

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maybe I can rustle up some spoons and

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there's a spoon bending and fold some

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origami pigs and just have a good time

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seeing everybody at skeptics in the pub

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here in California don't be surprised if

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I interview you for the skeptic zone but

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if you can't make any of that because

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you're living in Oregon well why don't I

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come along to a special meetup being a

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TV skeptic it's called as a talk by me

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at Pepe's pizza in Bend Oregon and that

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will be on the night of Monday the 18th

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of June from 6 p.m. more details on this

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week's show notes and I'm looking

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forward to that immensely have not been

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up to Bend Oregon before and I think

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I'll try to

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find some time to hunt for Bigfoot

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well why not that's what you do you go

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to Scotland you go to Loch Ness you go

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to Oregon you look for Bigfoot if I find

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one you'll be the first to know and my

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host for my visit up there is Brian

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Dunning from the skeptoid podcast and I

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thank him very much for organizing the

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talk but now it's time for me to run

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upstairs have an extra large cup of

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coffee trying to get my head together

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jet lag is a funny thing sometimes after

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a couple of days you think you're doing

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really fine and bammo two o'clock in the

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morning you're wide awake extra-large

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cup of coffee some nice sourdough bread

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and clam chowder I'm going to run

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upstairs see if there's any of that

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about and run back downstairs very

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quickly to bring you the rest of the

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skeptics are

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[Music]

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and joining me now all the way from the

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UK is out

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well frequent UK correspondent I'm very

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pleased to say from the good thinking

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society Michael Marshall hi Marsh Hey

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always a pleasure it's nice to know I

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can contact you at relatively short

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notice because just yesterday on the

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interwebs I know the stores of the day

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before I noticed a news report from the

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good thinking society about well what I

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guess we can say is a victory in this

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ongoing homeopathic dilution nonsense

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what can you tell our audience yes for a

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little while so I think actually the

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last time the previous times on the show

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I mentioned about the fact that NHS

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England which is the body that advises

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GPS here in the UK of what they can and

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can't do what they should shouldn't do

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what drugs to you to use what things

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they shouldn't be using back in November

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they issued guidance to GPS to say that

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GP should not prescribe homeopathy which

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is something we obviously wholeheartedly

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agree with them we've been campaigning

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for and pushing for for some time but

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while we agree with it it turns out

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unsurprisingly homeopathy did not agree

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with it and so they brought a legal case

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against NHS England to have them

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overturn the guidance of their expert

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panel and try and rescind that advice

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GPS to stop stop prescribing homeopathy

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and that legal case was heard a couple

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of weeks ago the course of three days

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and the results of that legal case were

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just announced and we're very pleased to

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see that the judge threw the case out

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completely rejected all the grounds that

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the homeopath brought forward and and as

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such will not be during NHS England to

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change their decision or to go back and

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make another decision in the event the

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original decision will stand which is

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which is fantastic news will you were

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you more or less expecting this decision

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or

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pleasant surprise I would say I was

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quietly confident that this is the

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direction that it would go so we took a

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very close interest in the consultation

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by NHS England when it happened

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partly to make sure that they weren't

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doing we were including something in

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there that didn't make sense or that

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they weren't asking a question that

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might get them the wrong kind of

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insights you know you could very easily

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ask the question do you find homeopathy

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beneficial which is very different from

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is homi all could be actually beneficial

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you know you're if you're not looking

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for subject objective outcomes but

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subjective outcomes so we were close

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closely monitoring the consultation to

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make sure that it was being conducted

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fairly but we're also monitoring it to

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make sure it was fair to the homeopaths

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because if a consultation is done as

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responsibly and as fairly as possible

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and gives as much opportunity as

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possible for people who do believe it

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hold me often thing to have this when

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that when the decision comes out and it

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goes against homeopathy it's very easy

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to then defend that that consultation

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and say well this was a very fair

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process it was all conducted properly

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and so the outcome is now understand so

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when we saw the consultation it

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certainly looked to my eyes that they've

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been there given the homeopaths ample

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opportunity to put their case forward

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every every possibility to make the

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strongest case for keeping homeopathy as

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possible and unsurprisingly it turned

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out that that strongest case wasn't

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strong enough to justify it but to give

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them every opportunity means when they

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complain that things weren't happening

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correctly you can stand up to that in

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court and and that's one of the things

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that judge found so for example the

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British on the empathic association

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which which were the ones bringing this

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case I think they raised something like

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twenty or thirty thousand pounds from

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their supporters to challenge this so

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there's a there's a decent amount of

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money flying around here so one of the

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things that they said was that the

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online consultation was too difficult

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for people to fill in because they had

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to complaints from people who said we

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tried to fill this enemy found it very

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difficult but in throwing that argument

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out the judge pointed out that the only

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two complaints the VA chair had received

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were from people who had still managed

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it wasn't it wasn't prohibitively

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difficult so I think I wasn't there in

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the courtroom although I did I do know

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people who were there and the sense that

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they got was that the beer chair were

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trying as many different arguments as

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they could to try and to try and

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demonstrate why they felt this is an

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affair which bizarrely enough is is

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sometimes indicative of not having a

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strong argument because if you've got a

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very very strong argument that's the

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argument you make but if you go in and

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you make lots of medium on low strength

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arguments it's because you didn't have

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what looked like kilograms and yeah so

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when when I heard what had been said in

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the courtroom

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I felt optimistic that it would go the

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right way and it's a it's a it's very

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pleasing to see that it has actually

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gone the right way now

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it's interesting you should talk about

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the fact that it was very important that

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the homeopaths in this situation were

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given every fair and reasonable

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opportunity and I completely agree with

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you and I couldn't help being reminded

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of when various skeptical organizations

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around the world this train skeptics for

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example or in the old days the James

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Randi Educational Foundation had psychic

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tests one of the benchmarks one of the

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the golden standards was to give the

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claimant every fair reasonable and true

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opportunity to prove their case and as

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we discovered even if we do that they

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they will still find reason to complain

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afterwards I think it's the right thing

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to do from several different

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perspectives I mean one is that you you

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want every opportunity for a genuine

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effect to show itself so you don't want

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to bias in case you happen to be wrong

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in case the person you're talking to is

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psychic or in case there is some stellar

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evidence in favor of homeopathy

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somewhere you want that to be heard but

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also you want it to be clear that we

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aren't looking for a whitewash we aren't

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looking to bias the outcome we want the

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fair is outcome possible and if that

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means that we hear the other side out

289
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and we give them every opportunity and

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still find or in this case the judge

291
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still finds that the skeptical position

292
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was right that just means that we can

293
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defend ourselves even better and yes the

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people who disagree with are very

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unlikely

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to accept the decision they're very

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unlikely to change their mind but we can

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at least stand by it and say we did it

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we did everything we could to give them

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every opportunity and from a moral sort

301
00:12:46,049 --> 00:12:43,569
of ethical standpoint we've we've we've

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acted as responsibly as we can really

303
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yeah and I think that's vital I think

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that's so important I can't stress that

305
00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:53,019
enough and again I hug back to the tests

306
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that we do when we're testing paranormal

307
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claims that we are absolutely certain

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that we make sure it's fair for

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everybody but I noticed the British

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homeopathic Association or was it

311
00:13:12,449 --> 00:13:08,949
somebody speaking for them produced a

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video not very happy about the outcome

313
00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:20,649
at all of course they're not gonna be

314
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very happy I would actually disagree

315
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:24,639
with the way they characterize both

316
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their legal case and this decision

317
00:13:31,980 --> 00:13:28,869
because obviously they paint this as

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being an unfair decision they paint this

319
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:33,670
as being against patient choice they

320
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paint their their legal cases being

321
00:13:42,749 --> 00:13:40,689
strong and brave and and all these kinds

322
00:13:44,249 --> 00:13:42,759
of things and having been familiar with

323
00:13:46,889 --> 00:13:44,259
some of the arguments that were made and

324
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having read the the full judgment of the

325
00:13:51,329 --> 00:13:50,199
courts it's very hard to see how if

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you're familiar with the details of the

327
00:13:55,769 --> 00:13:52,809
case that's the conclusion you come to

328
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but as far as that's the conclusion

329
00:13:59,340 --> 00:13:56,769
you're going to come to if you're

330
00:14:03,419 --> 00:13:59,350
heavily invested both emotionally and

331
00:14:04,769 --> 00:14:03,429
financially in in this case so I guess

332
00:14:05,999 --> 00:14:04,779
it's kind of natural that they're very

333
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:06,009
upset and they want to obviously show

334
00:14:10,139 --> 00:14:08,290
their supporters the best side of this

335
00:14:11,939 --> 00:14:10,149
defeat is possible but the important

336
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:11,949
thing is that this was a defeat this the

337
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:13,839
important thing is that the courts stood

338
00:14:18,569 --> 00:14:15,910
by the decision of NHS England and the

339
00:14:21,150 --> 00:14:18,579
guidance to GP stands ironically enough

340
00:14:24,299 --> 00:14:21,160
although this is being painted in the

341
00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:24,309
press as being the called upholding of a

342
00:14:30,090 --> 00:14:26,889
ban on homeopathy this isn't actually a

343
00:14:32,579 --> 00:14:30,100
ban on homeopathy NHS England doesn't

344
00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:32,589
have the ability or the authority

345
00:14:37,679 --> 00:14:35,049
legally to tell you to outright ban

346
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:37,689
something so instead what they're doing

347
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:41,290
is they've had issued guidance to GPS on

348
00:14:45,180 --> 00:14:42,370
what they can and

349
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:45,190
can't prescribe but GPS can just ignore

350
00:14:52,110 --> 00:14:47,680
that guidance if they'd like to have

351
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:52,120
given when there are homeopathy who are

352
00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:54,130
the professional membership body of

353
00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:56,200
doctors and other health care

354
00:15:01,050 --> 00:14:57,970
professionals who are also of homeopaths

355
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:01,060
if you are a GP and you're prescribing

356
00:15:05,460 --> 00:15:03,040
homeopathy instance the NHS England says

357
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:05,470
we advise you not to you may we'll just

358
00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:07,450
carry on and do that anyway so what's

359
00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:08,980
really really important is that we go

360
00:15:12,810 --> 00:15:10,120
not just from the decision by an

361
00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:12,820
interesting band but we look at what NHS

362
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,470
England recommended to the Department of

363
00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:16,480
Health who they said the public health

364
00:15:20,370 --> 00:15:18,430
you have to actually and the

365
00:15:22,110 --> 00:15:20,380
prescriptions of homeopathy to end

366
00:15:23,070 --> 00:15:22,120
homeopathy completely and that's

367
00:15:25,079 --> 00:15:23,080
something we've been that we've been

368
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:25,089
pushing for with oh good thinking - so

369
00:15:30,390 --> 00:15:28,210
while this is a hugely symbolic a hugely

370
00:15:32,519 --> 00:15:30,400
important statement and a huge symbolic

371
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:32,529
statement it isn't actually an outright

372
00:15:37,290 --> 00:15:34,930
ban only the public health can do that

373
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:37,300
and that's the next step is to get the

374
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:39,250
department health to listen to NHS

375
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:40,510
England and bank homeopathy

376
00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:42,370
prescriptions to listen to the legal

377
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:45,040
case that we brought back in 2015 and

378
00:15:48,570 --> 00:15:46,930
and do the same band - and that's what

379
00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:48,580
we'll be pushing for next well

380
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:50,470
interesting days March I tell you what

381
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:52,570
folks I'm going to link to the article a

382
00:15:56,519 --> 00:15:54,610
good thinking that covers this but I'm

383
00:15:58,260 --> 00:15:56,529
also going to link to the video put out

384
00:15:59,490 --> 00:15:58,270
by the British homeopathic Association

385
00:16:02,190 --> 00:15:59,500
because I think it's important people

386
00:16:04,410 --> 00:16:02,200
see that because when I viewed it what I

387
00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:04,420
was viewing was somebody who is deeply

388
00:16:10,199 --> 00:16:07,150
committed to homeopathy whose worldview

389
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:10,209
is that homeopathy works full stop and

390
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:13,209
therefore and you can see the rest it's

391
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:16,089
an interesting study in psychology well

392
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:21,040
a lot of these things are really say

393
00:16:24,180 --> 00:16:22,330
this very often that when it comes to

394
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:24,190
homeopathy I don't think I've met

395
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:26,170
anybody who is a proponent of

396
00:16:30,930 --> 00:16:28,570
choreography that I would say appears to

397
00:16:32,970 --> 00:16:30,940
be doing it just for the money or doing

398
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:32,980
a dishonestly I genuinely think they

399
00:16:37,260 --> 00:16:34,450
they really do believe in what they're

400
00:16:38,490 --> 00:16:37,270
doing as far as I can tell I think they

401
00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:38,500
really do think that they're helping

402
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:40,480
people and they just have the wrong

403
00:16:44,490 --> 00:16:42,160
answers but they they hold those

404
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:44,500
incorrect beliefs incredibly sincerely I

405
00:16:48,210 --> 00:16:46,000
think that's an important thing to hold

406
00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:48,220
in mind when we are counteracting the

407
00:16:52,530 --> 00:16:49,510
types of things that they would say and

408
00:16:54,660 --> 00:16:52,540
we're trying to debunk or educate the

409
00:16:55,980 --> 00:16:54,670
public about homeopathy is that we

410
00:16:56,249 --> 00:16:55,990
aren't dealing with people that we can

411
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:56,259
right

412
00:17:01,109 --> 00:16:59,199
as being you know knowing charlatans and

413
00:17:03,119 --> 00:17:01,119
and and all that kind of stuff these are

414
00:17:04,889 --> 00:17:03,129
people who are quite sincere in their

415
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:04,899
belief and really think they they're

416
00:17:08,730 --> 00:17:06,730
doing well and and I want to help in

417
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:08,740
almost every case that I've seen I think

418
00:17:12,449 --> 00:17:10,329
you're absolutely right and that's been

419
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:12,459
my experience too with the similar sort

420
00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:14,799
of people here in Australia well Michael

421
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:16,360
Marshall thank you very much for

422
00:17:21,090 --> 00:17:19,120
dropping everything and coming to do an

423
00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:21,100
interview with me I don't know what time

424
00:17:25,980 --> 00:17:23,470
it is in the UK it's oh it's reasonably

425
00:17:28,049 --> 00:17:25,990
early in the morning here in California

426
00:17:47,820 --> 00:17:28,059
I can never get the hang of these time

427
00:17:53,129 --> 00:17:50,930
[Music]

428
00:17:55,970 --> 00:17:53,139
from the website of good thinking

429
00:17:59,220 --> 00:17:55,980
society good thinking Society org

430
00:18:03,690 --> 00:17:59,230
published on June the fifth homeopaths

431
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:03,700
legal challenge to NHS England fails by

432
00:18:09,299 --> 00:18:06,610
Michael Marshall today the British

433
00:18:10,889 --> 00:18:09,309
homeopathic Association lost their legal

434
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:10,899
case against the National Health Service

435
00:18:15,899 --> 00:18:13,570
England with the judge dismissing all

436
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:15,909
four parts of their case the British

437
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:18,129
homeopathic association or BHA and

438
00:18:24,930 --> 00:18:21,370
sought to overturn the NHS England's

439
00:18:28,409 --> 00:18:24,940
announcement in November 2017 of new

440
00:18:31,049 --> 00:18:28,419
guidance which advises GPS not to

441
00:18:32,940 --> 00:18:31,059
prescribe homeopathic remedies Michael

442
00:18:34,980 --> 00:18:32,950
Marshall project director of the good

443
00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:34,990
thinking society said of the decision

444
00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:38,529
quote we are delighted to see the courts

445
00:18:45,539 --> 00:18:41,740
reject the v/h/s challenge to the NHS

446
00:18:47,940 --> 00:18:45,549
England's very sensible advice the NHS

447
00:18:50,669 --> 00:18:47,950
should not be funding treatments that

448
00:18:53,850 --> 00:18:50,679
have not been shown to work

449
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:53,860
we hope NHS England are now able to

450
00:18:59,369 --> 00:18:56,490
implement this decision without further

451
00:19:01,470 --> 00:18:59,379
unnecessary delay or distraction to help

452
00:19:04,619 --> 00:19:01,480
make sure resources are saved for

453
00:19:08,430 --> 00:19:04,629
treatments that actually work however

454
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:08,440
this is only guidance for GPS from NHS

455
00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:09,370
England

456
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:11,550
which some GPS may choose to ignore

457
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:14,410
given that there are some GPS who are

458
00:19:19,470 --> 00:19:17,050
also homeopaths this guidance weren't

459
00:19:21,450 --> 00:19:19,480
entirely and homeopathy prescriptions

460
00:19:23,310 --> 00:19:21,460
that's why we're calling on the

461
00:19:25,950 --> 00:19:23,320
Department of Health to undertake the

462
00:19:28,350 --> 00:19:25,960
recommendation by NHS England to end

463
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:28,360
homeopathic products to the NHS

464
00:19:34,350 --> 00:19:31,090
blacklist just as we asked them to do in

465
00:19:37,140 --> 00:19:34,360
October 2015 the last few years have

466
00:19:40,170 --> 00:19:37,150
seen almost every part of the NHS end

467
00:19:42,330 --> 00:19:40,180
support for homeopathy and this Court

468
00:19:44,910 --> 00:19:42,340
decision only goes to further underline

469
00:19:50,010 --> 00:19:44,920
the fact that homeopathy warrants no

470
00:20:05,120 --> 00:19:50,020
place in modern health care end quote

471
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:07,919
Australian skeptics skeptics in the pub

472
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:10,720
for Sydney note the change of date folks

473
00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:15,450
it's going to be on the 12th of July a

474
00:20:28,370 --> 00:20:25,200
what happens when the dogma of religion

475
00:20:31,410 --> 00:20:28,380
faces off with the dogma and medicine

476
00:20:36,330 --> 00:20:31,420
science-based medicine happens join dr.

477
00:20:38,850 --> 00:20:36,340
Angela Mackay MD if a CEP as she traces

478
00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:38,860
the sceptical path through medical

479
00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:43,270
history dr. Angie is certified by the

480
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:45,670
American Board of emergency medicine as

481
00:20:51,870 --> 00:20:48,880
an emergency physician and lives in

482
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:51,880
Atlanta Georgia she practiced in Atlanta

483
00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:54,610
for years but loves being on the move

484
00:20:59,460 --> 00:20:56,950
dr. Angie has combined her passions for

485
00:21:02,220 --> 00:20:59,470
emergency medicine patient protection

486
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:02,230
and traveling and now works all over the

487
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:04,809
United States she is the assistant

488
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:08,170
director of skeptic at DragonCon

489
00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:10,690
in Atlanta and has given talks at many

490
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,790
skeptics meetings in the United States

491
00:21:16,220 --> 00:21:14,400
and Australia

492
00:21:18,570 --> 00:21:16,230
[Music]

493
00:21:20,820 --> 00:21:18,580
please note the date has been moved to

494
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:20,830
accommodate doctor Angie normally

495
00:21:25,259 --> 00:21:22,690
skeptics in the pub is on the first

496
00:21:27,869 --> 00:21:25,269
Thursday of the month in July it'll be

497
00:21:29,850 --> 00:21:27,879
on the second Thursday the 12th people

498
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:29,860
generally start arriving around 6 p.m.

499
00:21:34,379 --> 00:21:32,110
after work and the talk begins at 7:00

500
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:34,389
and lasts for about 30 minutes the night

501
00:21:39,749 --> 00:21:36,370
finishes when the last person is thrown

502
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:39,759
out enjoy a meal and a drink and another

503
00:21:43,169 --> 00:21:41,049
meal and another drink

504
00:21:45,749 --> 00:21:43,179
accompanied by lively discussion free

505
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:45,759
spoon bending lessons and the company of

506
00:21:51,149 --> 00:21:48,730
other skeptics as we cover a variety of

507
00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:51,159
interesting topics there is no need to

508
00:21:56,999 --> 00:21:53,769
belong to Australian skeptics anything

509
00:21:59,580 --> 00:21:57,009
below welcome bring friends - parking is

510
00:22:02,779 --> 00:21:59,590
available nearby or simply catch the

511
00:22:05,789 --> 00:22:02,789
train to win e'en more details at

512
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:05,799
skeptics comdata you or skeptics earned

513
00:22:18,649 --> 00:22:09,410
off TV in this week's show notes

514
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:23,320
here's main our spooky action

515
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:26,170
at the distance

516
00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:30,310
yes it's skeptics in the and I just

517
00:22:35,790 --> 00:22:32,820
received an text from Richard Saunders

518
00:22:37,530 --> 00:22:35,800
because he tells me what to do and he

519
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:37,540
says what is the question for this

520
00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:40,960
evening that's the question for this

521
00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:45,430
evening is do you think there is

522
00:22:50,970 --> 00:22:47,830
anything skeptics can learn from the

523
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:50,980
believers in the paranormal do you think

524
00:22:57,330 --> 00:22:54,130
there's anything skeptics can learn from

525
00:23:00,150 --> 00:22:57,340
believers in the paranormal hmm and

526
00:23:02,250 --> 00:23:00,160
we've got dr. Burke I'm doing stuff here

527
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:02,260
he's really talking about things also

528
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:05,050
the conversations on the ABC website was

529
00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:07,360
talking about how the flu vaccine is

530
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:11,350
only 1% effective and it then went on to

531
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:13,600
say that if the Spanish flu broke out

532
00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:15,010
again it'll be arrived because it's a

533
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:16,990
secondary infection that everyone died

534
00:23:24,330 --> 00:23:20,230
from oh hello barman how are you what's

535
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:24,340
the one drinking tonight not much not

536
00:23:29,850 --> 00:23:26,470
much typical skeptics not putting it

537
00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:29,860
down just to see how are you I'm

538
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:31,900
extremely well I hope people are

539
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:33,490
drinking a lot because we have to make a

540
00:23:38,010 --> 00:23:35,710
minimum spend well I'm doing my bit yes

541
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:38,020
and look I've actually sent some drinks

542
00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:39,250
to Richard Saunders even though he's in

543
00:23:44,370 --> 00:23:40,750
America yeah

544
00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:44,380
Richard's not here but the question is

545
00:23:48,030 --> 00:23:46,150
what do you think skeptics can learn

546
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:48,040
from believers in the paranormal is

547
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:49,410
there anything we can learn from them

548
00:24:09,650 --> 00:23:58,820
what can we learn was it about belief in

549
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:09,660
to a certain extent Wow everything but

550
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:13,050
that look hello sir may not hear oh he's

551
00:24:15,890 --> 00:24:14,250
just ordering his drink

552
00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:15,900
do you think there's anything skeptics

553
00:24:22,130 --> 00:24:17,460
can learn from people who are into the

554
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:22,140
paranormal at all I mean you can learn

555
00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:29,850
we're thinking was is flawed and how how

556
00:24:35,030 --> 00:24:31,620
you can make mistakes and that you're

557
00:24:37,610 --> 00:24:35,040
not immune from making mistakes in logic

558
00:24:39,470 --> 00:24:37,620
and you're a fan of in search of or

559
00:24:42,890 --> 00:24:39,480
ancient aliens do you occasionally look

560
00:24:47,260 --> 00:24:42,900
at those shows and go mmhmm I do I find

561
00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:47,270
them too painful it's my guilty pleasure

562
00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:50,460
yeah no it's not for me but I'd have a

563
00:24:58,670 --> 00:24:55,790
look do you think skeptics can learn

564
00:25:00,590 --> 00:24:58,680
anything from the paranormal people yeah

565
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:00,600
I think absolutely it's a good socio and

566
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,440
associate on the word but you know it's

567
00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:06,720
a good way of judging how people react

568
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:11,220
in stressful situations so do you ever

569
00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:15,120
watch paranormal shows like Asian aliens

570
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:17,910
I don't watch stuff like that no I can't

571
00:25:21,140 --> 00:25:19,890
get anyone watches that I I've seen

572
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:21,150
enough memes to know what it's about

573
00:25:25,580 --> 00:25:23,310
it's been tastic look at the guy's a big

574
00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:25,590
hair yeah he's got amazing hair isn't I

575
00:25:32,180 --> 00:25:28,560
mean that kind of stuff it's interesting

576
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:32,190
for about 5 and 1/2 seconds and then it

577
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:34,080
wanes a little bit I'm more of a you

578
00:25:38,570 --> 00:25:36,570
know I prefer the scripted paranormal

579
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:38,580
stuff like the x-files etc you much

580
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,170
smarter than me - that's probably why

581
00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:42,720
you go do you think do you think the

582
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:44,520
skeptics have anything to learn from the

583
00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:48,330
paranormal people that's a tough

584
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:49,140
question

585
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:54,000
Wow yeah I I'm a bit speechless I'm sure

586
00:25:58,550 --> 00:25:56,730
we do because there's a lot of belief

587
00:26:00,110 --> 00:25:58,560
and there's a lot of half based stuff

588
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:00,120
but there is a certain stuff that's good

589
00:26:05,540 --> 00:26:03,690
so let me just okay I think I'll need to

590
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:05,550
think about this more thoroughly to

591
00:26:11,330 --> 00:26:08,640
answer in any specific way but I would

592
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:11,340
say generically yes we can learn

593
00:26:16,790 --> 00:26:14,250
something from anyone either we can

594
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:16,800
learn positively or negatively so you

595
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:19,050
will learn from you know some almost

596
00:26:24,140 --> 00:26:21,330
everyone even the most the people whose

597
00:26:25,970 --> 00:26:24,150
who are most wrong in the world do some

598
00:26:27,910 --> 00:26:25,980
even even dive into the company because

599
00:26:31,170 --> 00:26:27,920
he can sell tickets to soundcheck

600
00:26:34,620 --> 00:26:31,180
that's pretty good

601
00:26:37,660 --> 00:26:34,630
clearly this universe is this yeah yes

602
00:26:39,490 --> 00:26:37,670
no but people almost everyone does

603
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:39,500
something's right and we can learn from

604
00:26:43,450 --> 00:26:41,690
that but even if people do something

605
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:43,460
wrong we can learn from that as well

606
00:26:47,140 --> 00:26:44,810
we can learn about the thought process

607
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:47,150
in fact I think a lot of skeptics would

608
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:50,330
be interested in the paranormal and

609
00:26:54,220 --> 00:26:52,640
believers in the paranormal largely

610
00:26:56,020 --> 00:26:54,230
because of that too in order to

611
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:56,030
understand what goes through their minds

612
00:27:00,220 --> 00:26:57,730
and why they think the way they do so

613
00:27:03,250 --> 00:27:00,230
yes we definitely who do have something

614
00:27:05,740 --> 00:27:03,260
to learn specifically what I'll have to

615
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:05,750
get back to you on that oh and did you

616
00:27:11,260 --> 00:27:08,210
enjoy the mind body wallet cuz you in in

617
00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:11,270
disguise gotta say that wig was perfect

618
00:27:22,570 --> 00:27:19,430
thank very and so how many Yanni eggs

619
00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:22,580
have you got now well actually they were

620
00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:23,980
really expensive there they were like

621
00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:27,110
$85 and I found someone at c-46 so you

622
00:27:32,650 --> 00:27:30,950
know now they are actually porous aren't

623
00:27:34,450 --> 00:27:32,660
they yeah that's why they're a problem

624
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:34,460
if you would like to learn more please

625
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:37,370
come to skeptic on in October because I

626
00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:38,930
will be talking about exactly this

627
00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:42,140
subject and there will be pictures and

628
00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:43,790
I'll be watching to see if anyone leave

629
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:47,920
it works out Norma guy ah come on man

630
00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:50,170
because there's a bit of a major scandal

631
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:52,780
here as I got my glass of champagne from

632
00:27:57,570 --> 00:27:55,930
the bomb Alethea cried foul and she so

633
00:28:01,260 --> 00:27:57,580
you've got a problem with the the

634
00:28:03,690 --> 00:28:01,270
champagne serving champagne serving yeah

635
00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:03,700
you got more than me outrageous was it

636
00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:06,220
I'm like I look like a seasoned

637
00:28:11,610 --> 00:28:07,900
alcoholic well you just look like a very

638
00:28:13,140 --> 00:28:11,620
talented amateur I don't know if I

639
00:28:17,220 --> 00:28:13,150
should take that as an insult may not

640
00:28:18,540 --> 00:28:17,230
that's a compliment to him there just

641
00:28:21,690 --> 00:28:18,550
give him the entire bottle wouldn't a

642
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:21,700
Gina yeah they do that regularly yeah

643
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:23,890
I've had word from Richard Saunders

644
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:26,320
who's into the u.s. at the moment he's

645
00:28:28,980 --> 00:28:27,760
currently doing a property development

646
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:28,990
in San Francisco or something I'm not

647
00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:30,850
quite sure maybe he's driving the Google

648
00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:32,950
bus I don't know and he wants to know is

649
00:28:39,170 --> 00:28:34,420
there anything the skeptics can learn

650
00:28:41,660 --> 00:28:39,180
from believers in the paranormal yes I

651
00:28:46,110 --> 00:28:41,670
think that's why we went to

652
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:46,120
mind/body/spirit last week like it gives

653
00:28:53,610 --> 00:28:50,650
us an opportunity to sharpen our

654
00:28:57,210 --> 00:28:53,620
skeptical tools so we have to look at

655
00:29:01,620 --> 00:28:57,220
what they're claiming look at why they

656
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:01,630
believe these things and try to try to

657
00:29:05,460 --> 00:29:02,770
look at it critically

658
00:29:07,770 --> 00:29:05,470
I'm not saying completely debunked the

659
00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:07,780
whole lot because obviously sometimes

660
00:29:11,790 --> 00:29:10,000
things turned out to be true but we're

661
00:29:13,380 --> 00:29:11,800
talking about paranormal things most

662
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:13,390
mostly we're talking about things that

663
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:14,710
turn out to be something else

664
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:18,010
explainable by science ancient aliens

665
00:29:21,710 --> 00:29:19,650
found at all

666
00:29:26,180 --> 00:29:21,720
no I don't I don't know what it is made

667
00:29:28,340 --> 00:29:26,190
out I know you discussed it before in

668
00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:28,350
search of those old shows would let

669
00:29:34,550 --> 00:29:31,830
anymore either years ago in the UK I

670
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,560
used to watch the x-files I used to read

671
00:29:39,650 --> 00:29:36,720
things like skeptical inquirer although

672
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:39,660
not getting far there was another one

673
00:29:44,540 --> 00:29:42,330
for Wu it was like a Wu based 140

674
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:44,550
million times yes

675
00:29:47,690 --> 00:29:46,110
so I'd read all those sort of magazines

676
00:29:50,180 --> 00:29:47,700
and look into all of that stuff very

677
00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:50,190
clearly not from a scientific angle just

678
00:29:52,970 --> 00:29:51,960
because I loved it the whole idea of all

679
00:29:56,030 --> 00:29:52,980
that sort of stuff was great

680
00:30:00,410 --> 00:29:56,040
so I was a full believer but I mean

681
00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:00,420
David Duchovny he's hot I just love the

682
00:30:03,050 --> 00:30:01,710
way that he's acting career took off

683
00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:03,060
just as he was finishing I think he's

684
00:30:07,180 --> 00:30:04,980
English degree or something and he had

685
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:07,190
to do his spoken word English

686
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,360
dissertation and he just went off and

687
00:30:14,810 --> 00:30:11,760
they were asking him about the I think

688
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:14,820
the novel or the play stormy petrel pet

689
00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:16,860
and he was saying all petrol is English

690
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:19,860
for gasoline and stuff and he really

691
00:30:27,290 --> 00:30:21,930
stuffed that up so yes that's that's

692
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:27,300
yeah that that is true yeah okay yeah

693
00:30:30,620 --> 00:30:28,980
well and all did you hear what his gig

694
00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:30,630
was like did he do a good show on Sydney

695
00:30:38,030 --> 00:30:35,460
I was there oh how was he it was

696
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:38,040
interesting it were both very emotional

697
00:30:42,260 --> 00:30:39,600
about the whole thing we both got our

698
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:42,270
pillowcases signed that was all

699
00:30:47,630 --> 00:30:46,170
available to buy yeah it was good thing

700
00:30:51,710 --> 00:30:47,640
so he had his own pillowcase what he's

701
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:51,720
fertilized Morrissey does that - that's

702
00:30:57,530 --> 00:30:55,770
cool yeah what do you think of dr. Brad

703
00:30:59,210 --> 00:30:57,540
tonight and do you think skeptics

704
00:31:00,680 --> 00:30:59,220
generally could learn something from the

705
00:31:02,110 --> 00:31:00,690
paranormal community or is there

706
00:31:05,740 --> 00:31:02,120
something we can pick up from them I

707
00:31:07,790 --> 00:31:05,750
thought the doctor was quite informative

708
00:31:09,700 --> 00:31:07,800
even though I'm not from around here it

709
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:09,710
was an interesting conversation

710
00:31:13,529 --> 00:31:11,840
from away from again from the states

711
00:31:17,169 --> 00:31:13,539
from Cincinnati Ohio

712
00:31:18,370 --> 00:31:17,179
okay yes I'm just try think where that

713
00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:18,380
is is that in the middle of the whole

714
00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:18,820
thing

715
00:31:23,740 --> 00:31:21,350
pretty much only used to inside but yeah

716
00:31:25,810 --> 00:31:23,750
it's considered the Midwest it's not a

717
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:25,820
flyover state is it huh it's not a

718
00:31:30,820 --> 00:31:28,610
flyover State is it not quite but it's

719
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:30,830
getting there okay so Cincinnati okay

720
00:31:39,970 --> 00:31:37,010
CIN Paul WKRP that's pretty much all my

721
00:31:41,740 --> 00:31:39,980
knowledge I'm sorry oh that's right so

722
00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:41,750
what is great about the place you live

723
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:47,390
in and what goes on there well is it

724
00:31:51,070 --> 00:31:49,039
much skeptical stuff because it's not

725
00:31:53,980 --> 00:31:51,080
actually down south so is it very

726
00:31:56,169 --> 00:31:53,990
religious or not it is fairly religious

727
00:31:58,539 --> 00:31:56,179
but there's actually is a fairly strong

728
00:32:00,490 --> 00:31:58,549
skeptical community there there's a

729
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:00,500
group called the tri-state right a

730
00:32:03,970 --> 00:32:02,690
skeptics and they have a few sister

731
00:32:05,289 --> 00:32:03,980
groups that are actually organized by

732
00:32:07,620 --> 00:32:05,299
the same people called the tri-state

733
00:32:10,570 --> 00:32:07,630
atheists and the tri-state freethinkers

734
00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:10,580
have slightly different focuses but

735
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:11,750
they're all under one big umbrella

736
00:32:15,730 --> 00:32:14,510
organizations and they actually do a lot

737
00:32:17,710 --> 00:32:15,740
of great work there they have been

738
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:17,720
organizing the marshes for science the

739
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:19,370
women's marshes and because we have to

740
00:32:23,740 --> 00:32:21,890
ask you how's it feel having Trump as

741
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:23,750
your president not good

742
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:26,090
I'm glad to be in Australia so what do

743
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:27,289
you make of us skeptics here in

744
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:28,610
Australia like a lot of people horders

745
00:32:32,409 --> 00:32:30,080
have us being like you know the rock

746
00:32:33,549 --> 00:32:32,419
stars The Skeptical movement but yeah I

747
00:32:35,230 --> 00:32:33,559
mean just look at Richard Saunders you

748
00:32:37,450 --> 00:32:35,240
say that's not true but what do you

749
00:32:39,789 --> 00:32:37,460
think of us well judging by your

750
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:39,799
successes with you know stepping out the

751
00:32:45,639 --> 00:32:41,570
anti-tax movement I would say you guys

752
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,649
are doing really well yeah we're trying

753
00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:47,120
pretty hard then I might just have a

754
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:48,470
chat - is there any question do you

755
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:49,970
think I should ask dr. Brad after what

756
00:32:54,370 --> 00:32:52,850
you saw him chat about no questions for

757
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,380
me at the moment since I am new to the

758
00:32:57,789 --> 00:32:56,000
country so you know just sitting back

759
00:33:00,279 --> 00:32:57,799
and learning so you staying here on what

760
00:33:02,139 --> 00:33:00,289
I'm here in the working holiday so I'm

761
00:33:02,910 --> 00:33:02,149
here to learn and explore and see the

762
00:33:05,530 --> 00:33:02,920
place

763
00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:05,540
[Music]

764
00:33:10,490 --> 00:33:07,860
dr. Brady hi dr. Brett how are you we're

765
00:33:12,530 --> 00:33:10,500
talking about the whole Australian

766
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:12,540
government scheme that will make me

767
00:33:17,030 --> 00:33:14,640
going around to doctor shopping and not

768
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:17,040
possible anymore let's boo I know how

769
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:19,410
terrible for you it's gonna make my job

770
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:20,370
a lot easier

771
00:33:24,650 --> 00:33:23,310
I always know you're shifty eyes can you

772
00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:24,660
tell people that a doctor shopping when

773
00:33:28,430 --> 00:33:26,220
they come in they go oh got a bit of a

774
00:33:30,530 --> 00:33:28,440
back pain here and you know well the

775
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:30,540
typical presentation is somebody who

776
00:33:37,670 --> 00:33:34,400
comes in limping and then they produce a

777
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,680
like a CT scan or an MRI report of their

778
00:33:42,250 --> 00:33:39,840
lower back although it looks as though

779
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:42,260
it's in different fonts and it's been

780
00:33:47,870 --> 00:33:45,120
faxed a number of times until it's

781
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:47,880
barely readable and it's usually folded

782
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:50,010
up and quite tattered because they've

783
00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:52,770
gone into every single GP every GP is

784
00:33:57,230 --> 00:33:55,080
opened it up put their grubby fingers on

785
00:33:59,630 --> 00:33:57,240
it and so the papers deteriorated over

786
00:34:02,630 --> 00:33:59,640
time so if somebody is actually handing

787
00:34:04,970 --> 00:34:02,640
that across yeah the suspicion is very

788
00:34:07,370 --> 00:34:04,980
high in those circumstances and when you

789
00:34:09,350 --> 00:34:07,380
say no I'm not going to be giving you

790
00:34:11,450 --> 00:34:09,360
any opioids today it's your first time

791
00:34:13,220 --> 00:34:11,460
to the clinic this this clinic will not

792
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:13,230
do that then usually their limp

793
00:34:18,350 --> 00:34:16,649
disappears it's interesting because I go

794
00:34:19,730 --> 00:34:18,360
to the same doctor and I he's got the

795
00:34:21,409 --> 00:34:19,740
whole record there and the whole thing

796
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:21,419
and it's interesting some doctors are

797
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:24,450
very sticklers for regulations like some

798
00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:26,970
doctors will give temazepam to me but

799
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:29,250
they won't give valium even though

800
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:31,649
they're in the same category and that

801
00:34:36,889 --> 00:34:33,570
would be because it's a stronger drug or

802
00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:36,899
why would that be so valium is a little

803
00:34:41,870 --> 00:34:38,880
bit longer acting people can still

804
00:34:43,940 --> 00:34:41,880
function during the day with it mostly

805
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:43,950
there's this for sleeping I'm not I'm

806
00:34:48,590 --> 00:34:45,570
not wandering around well some people

807
00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:48,600
have five six ten tablets or 50 tablets

808
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:49,800
a day if they're really wanting to

809
00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:51,510
because they've built up tolerant levels

810
00:34:55,580 --> 00:34:53,460
to it so temazepam usually knocks you

811
00:34:56,940 --> 00:34:55,590
out you get asleep it comes in a packet

812
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:56,950
of 25

813
00:35:02,430 --> 00:34:59,280
whereas diazepam comes in a packet of 50

814
00:35:04,770 --> 00:35:02,440
so usually I'm barely stingy and if

815
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:04,780
somebody wants it I'll maybe write them

816
00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:07,410
two tablets I mean they won't come back

817
00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:09,849
can't you just get like a one-off 20

818
00:35:14,190 --> 00:35:11,740
thing for them and that's it yeah you

819
00:35:16,319 --> 00:35:14,200
can any doctor can specify certain

820
00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:16,329
amounts one of the issues that I find is

821
00:35:20,730 --> 00:35:18,670
that I'll sometimes specify a very small

822
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:20,740
amount a limited amount and then the

823
00:35:24,930 --> 00:35:22,690
pharmacists will just give them a whole

824
00:35:26,940 --> 00:35:24,940
bottle or a whole packet of 50 and not

825
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,950
actually read what I've written so I get

826
00:35:30,060 --> 00:35:28,480
very suspicious of some of the

827
00:35:31,740 --> 00:35:30,070
pharmacists around and look fair

828
00:35:33,359 --> 00:35:31,750
listeners out there what seems to be the

829
00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:33,369
naughtiness that's going on with the

830
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:34,750
doctors and pharmacies at the moment is

831
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:36,400
it mainly the opioids that's what people

832
00:35:40,319 --> 00:35:37,810
are worried about is that seems to be

833
00:35:42,810 --> 00:35:40,329
what is abusing at the moment I suppose

834
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:42,820
opioids are getting harder and harder to

835
00:35:48,839 --> 00:35:47,440
get so with live feeds coming through in

836
00:35:50,339 --> 00:35:48,849
different states around Australia it's

837
00:35:52,140 --> 00:35:50,349
very slow at the moment but we're

838
00:35:53,930 --> 00:35:52,150
getting there and it will make it more

839
00:35:56,670 --> 00:35:53,940
difficult also if you're a long-term

840
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:56,680
opioids then you really should have one

841
00:36:01,500 --> 00:35:59,200
provider one prescriber of that and you

842
00:36:04,589 --> 00:36:01,510
need to register in different states and

843
00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:04,599
that one practitioner to write you the

844
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:06,910
medication if anybody else does it it's

845
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:08,800
essentially illegal unless it's an

846
00:36:12,210 --> 00:36:10,690
emergency situations I've never really

847
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:12,220
fallen over hard enough to actually have

848
00:36:16,859 --> 00:36:15,250
had any I really don't know what's going

849
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,869
on there but I was just actually

850
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:18,480
wondering because some we talk about

851
00:36:22,380 --> 00:36:20,890
Nembutal let's say barbiturate and I've

852
00:36:23,849 --> 00:36:22,390
been watching Valley of the dolls great

853
00:36:25,770 --> 00:36:23,859
movie if you wanna learn about your

854
00:36:28,319 --> 00:36:25,780
barbiturates there it's all in that

855
00:36:29,609 --> 00:36:28,329
movie and when did that 60 stuff get the

856
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:29,619
boot because it's actually quite

857
00:36:33,150 --> 00:36:31,119
dangerous isn't it because you between

858
00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:33,160
being asleep and being dead it's only a

859
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:34,720
matter of like a couple of tablets but

860
00:36:38,730 --> 00:36:36,310
what I do like about Valley of the dolls

861
00:36:40,620 --> 00:36:38,740
Nicias watch this as a doctor all those

862
00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:40,630
girls can swallow a handful of pills

863
00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:42,430
with no water and even you as a

864
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:45,190
professional can't do that different

865
00:36:50,250 --> 00:36:47,440
people have different skills yeah yeah

866
00:36:52,290 --> 00:36:50,260
yeah so so are there any Babbage was

867
00:36:54,510 --> 00:36:52,300
used at all anymore are they like no

868
00:36:56,700 --> 00:36:54,520
sometimes we'll use them I think it

869
00:36:59,819 --> 00:36:56,710
mainly seen it being used for some

870
00:37:00,859 --> 00:36:59,829
people with epilepsy because it can stop

871
00:37:02,569 --> 00:37:00,869
your from having seizures

872
00:37:04,460 --> 00:37:02,579
but again yeah as you saying there's a

873
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:04,470
narrow therapeutic range it can interact

874
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:06,240
with other medications it can cause

875
00:37:10,489 --> 00:37:07,920
quite significant sedation and

876
00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:10,499
drowsiness so yeah we tend not to use

877
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:12,420
that it's not they're not very clean

878
00:37:16,220 --> 00:37:14,730
drugs and also there seems to be some

879
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:16,230
sort of a new drug they're thinking of

880
00:37:20,779 --> 00:37:18,210
using as getting people off eyes it's

881
00:37:22,999 --> 00:37:20,789
like a slow release and fit Amin tablet

882
00:37:24,759 --> 00:37:23,009
capsule links to amphetamine or

883
00:37:27,019 --> 00:37:24,769
something I believe it's called

884
00:37:29,779 --> 00:37:27,029
trying to create all sorts of different

885
00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:29,789
things so if we mean I don't think that

886
00:37:32,299 --> 00:37:30,900
to me that doesn't sound like a great

887
00:37:33,499 --> 00:37:32,309
idea to get people advice because you're

888
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:33,509
just moving them to another member of

889
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:35,490
the amphetamine family so sometimes

890
00:37:40,190 --> 00:37:37,890
there are partial agonists which are

891
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,200
also partial antagonists so they can

892
00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:42,480
activate your receptors a little bit and

893
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:45,720
also block it from further medication so

894
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:48,480
you can get a little bit of a high on a

895
00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:50,640
long-acting dose but then if you are

896
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:52,529
topping yourself up with extra

897
00:37:56,989 --> 00:37:54,690
additional drugs then it won't act on

898
00:37:58,819 --> 00:37:56,999
those receptors so that's often what we

899
00:38:00,980 --> 00:37:58,829
what we try to use with implants or

900
00:38:03,140 --> 00:38:00,990
different longer-acting drugs so it's

901
00:38:06,829 --> 00:38:03,150
that partial activation partial blockage

902
00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:06,839
so people don't get a buzz and as a GP

903
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:08,460
on a daily basis what's the biggest

904
00:38:13,789 --> 00:38:10,710
challenge you face in your career when

905
00:38:15,470 --> 00:38:13,799
people come in you go oh boy that's a

906
00:38:16,819 --> 00:38:15,480
tough question something that's one

907
00:38:18,769 --> 00:38:16,829
thing about GPS which we should all know

908
00:38:21,769 --> 00:38:18,779
is you get an incredible range of people

909
00:38:23,660 --> 00:38:21,779
coming in every 15 minutes yeah I think

910
00:38:26,749 --> 00:38:23,670
for me working in a sexual health clinic

911
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:26,759
make contact tracing is an issue so

912
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:28,650
often if somebody has chlamydia or

913
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:31,440
gonorrhea and I'm there going well you

914
00:38:34,970 --> 00:38:33,210
need to talk to your partners from the

915
00:38:36,529 --> 00:38:34,980
past three months about what's what's

916
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,539
been happening and get in contact with

917
00:38:40,489 --> 00:38:37,920
them often people don't have their phone

918
00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:40,499
numbers or their names and so that is a

919
00:38:47,770 --> 00:38:44,260
major problem don't remember the face

920
00:38:48,819 --> 00:38:47,780
tshirt yeah and because I think it's

921
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:48,829
great that your partner actually

922
00:38:53,470 --> 00:38:51,200
complimented you and told you to get a

923
00:38:56,079 --> 00:38:53,480
better dress sense on television I think

924
00:38:56,650 --> 00:38:56,089
it's good because frankly you can't be

925
00:39:02,230 --> 00:38:56,660
trusted

926
00:39:05,290 --> 00:39:02,240
he just told me that I've worn worse now

927
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:05,300
in a relationship same-sex or not is

928
00:39:10,690 --> 00:39:07,490
that an insult or not I'm still

929
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:10,700
befuddled so we're I'll chat to him when

930
00:39:14,890 --> 00:39:13,010
I get home and when you go on television

931
00:39:16,329 --> 00:39:14,900
obviously you get emails and stuff in

932
00:39:17,859 --> 00:39:16,339
that from what you've said and what are

933
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:17,869
you expected to have in your inbox

934
00:39:22,290 --> 00:39:19,040
tomorrow from what you said this morning

935
00:39:25,059 --> 00:39:22,300
oh well this morning I was talking about

936
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:25,069
sleeping being an issue and how to get

937
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:27,530
better sleep at nighttime so there's all

938
00:39:33,490 --> 00:39:31,190
sorts of myths about sleep I think a lot

939
00:39:36,250 --> 00:39:33,500
of the advice that doctors give is don't

940
00:39:38,319 --> 00:39:36,260
have coffee after about midday don't

941
00:39:40,510 --> 00:39:38,329
have alcohol because you might not off

942
00:39:42,549 --> 00:39:40,520
to sleep but then you'll have a terrible

943
00:39:46,839 --> 00:39:42,559
sleep you won't get into stage three or

944
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:46,849
four deep grade sleep but the one of the

945
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:49,490
myths regards dairy products so whether

946
00:39:56,799 --> 00:39:52,730
you're having milk warm milk seems to be

947
00:39:58,030 --> 00:39:56,809
everybody's go-to but from some of the

948
00:40:00,520 --> 00:39:58,040
studies they don't really find that it's

949
00:40:02,620 --> 00:40:00,530
very helpful having warm milk it's been

950
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:02,630
rumored to have tryptophan z' in it

951
00:40:07,299 --> 00:40:05,119
which can be a good sedative because

952
00:40:08,829 --> 00:40:07,309
it's metabolized into melatonin so where

953
00:40:10,809 --> 00:40:08,839
does spooning fit into the whole thing

954
00:40:13,539 --> 00:40:10,819
as getting to sleep spooning milk

955
00:40:15,970 --> 00:40:13,549
cooling no spooning with a partner or or

956
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:15,980
pillow i spoon a pillow and you know

957
00:40:20,260 --> 00:40:18,170
well I think having warm milk and

958
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,270
spooning fits into the Pavlovian

959
00:40:25,420 --> 00:40:23,119
response element so if you're used to

960
00:40:27,970 --> 00:40:25,430
spooning and if that's putting you into

961
00:40:30,579 --> 00:40:27,980
a very comfortable phase if you're

962
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:30,589
having a small warm glass of milk

963
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:32,480
because if you having large milk shake

964
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:33,770
before you go to bed then you'll be

965
00:40:38,020 --> 00:40:35,210
getting up every five minutes to go and

966
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:38,030
pee it's fitting you into that Pavlovian

967
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:40,490
response where you will feel warm and

968
00:40:45,490 --> 00:40:42,890
cozy and then not off to a good night

969
00:40:47,799 --> 00:40:45,500
one morning on me already one last year

970
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:47,809
yet one last serious thing today on the

971
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:49,760
conversation on the ABC they said that

972
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:52,130
the flu vaccine is only 1% effective and

973
00:40:55,569 --> 00:40:54,770
really there's no point and I'm thinking

974
00:40:57,819 --> 00:40:55,579
that

975
00:40:59,620 --> 00:40:57,829
dr. bread thing he's been sucking me and

976
00:41:02,829 --> 00:40:59,630
what's going on here 1% effective that's

977
00:41:06,819 --> 00:41:02,839
crap yeah then they basically looked at

978
00:41:09,039 --> 00:41:06,829
a review that was in the Cochrane review

979
00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:09,049
which is quite well so it was quite

980
00:41:13,749 --> 00:41:11,089
fascinating reading about it they said

981
00:41:15,279 --> 00:41:13,759
that if there's stability in a Cochrane

982
00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:15,289
review it means that there's no further

983
00:41:18,969 --> 00:41:17,089
information that's likely to come to

984
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:18,979
hand so we can make a generalised

985
00:41:26,370 --> 00:41:21,440
conclusion now so the conclusion was

986
00:41:29,319 --> 00:41:26,380
based on data from 2016 and earlier and

987
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:29,329
it actually says in the Cochrane review

988
00:41:33,489 --> 00:41:32,089
that this is an unusual Cochrane review

989
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:33,499
that we're still waiting for further

990
00:41:36,339 --> 00:41:35,119
information to come through and when

991
00:41:38,319 --> 00:41:36,349
that information comes through that we

992
00:41:40,660 --> 00:41:38,329
may alter things we don't believe that

993
00:41:42,819 --> 00:41:40,670
this is going to be a stable review for

994
00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:42,829
the next 30 years we're expecting more

995
00:41:47,499 --> 00:41:45,049
information to come to light so please

996
00:41:49,930 --> 00:41:47,509
read our Cochrane review with that in

997
00:41:52,359 --> 00:41:49,940
mind so that was saying that for young

998
00:41:54,459 --> 00:41:52,369
like healthy adults that if you're

999
00:41:56,109 --> 00:41:54,469
having a hundred people vaccinated they

1000
00:41:58,569 --> 00:41:56,119
don't maybe only one of them will be

1001
00:42:00,160 --> 00:41:58,579
predicted from getting the flu they're

1002
00:42:02,739 --> 00:42:00,170
saying that out of a hundred people you

1003
00:42:04,660 --> 00:42:02,749
might get 2% getting the flu so if

1004
00:42:07,180 --> 00:42:04,670
you're stopping one of those people 1%

1005
00:42:08,259 --> 00:42:07,190
from getting the flu then thank those

1006
00:42:09,579 --> 00:42:08,269
are some of the numbers that they're

1007
00:42:12,549 --> 00:42:09,589
talking about but then they're saying

1008
00:42:15,729 --> 00:42:12,559
that for young kids it may actually be

1009
00:42:17,890 --> 00:42:15,739
one in five that so that will be

1010
00:42:20,829 --> 00:42:17,900
protected from getting influenza so

1011
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:20,839
that's much higher numbers but it

1012
00:42:26,259 --> 00:42:22,880
doesn't take into account people that

1013
00:42:29,049 --> 00:42:26,269
that may not have the best health people

1014
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:29,059
with specific conditions and there's not

1015
00:42:33,339 --> 00:42:31,249
much data on pregnant women as well that

1016
00:42:35,170 --> 00:42:33,349
are a major risk group I people diabetes

1017
00:42:36,819 --> 00:42:35,180
people that are overweight so it sort of

1018
00:42:38,859 --> 00:42:36,829
depends like if you're looking at young

1019
00:42:40,359 --> 00:42:38,869
healthy people and yeah like you may not

1020
00:42:42,759 --> 00:42:40,369
get that much benefit from it

1021
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:42,769
my dad's 89 he's incredibly upset about

1022
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:45,170
his bilirubin level we'll bilirubin

1023
00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:46,960
level kill you

1024
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:49,150
well it depends on why your bilirubin

1025
00:42:53,550 --> 00:42:51,370
level is going up if you have Gil Bears

1026
00:42:56,310 --> 00:42:53,560
syndrome which a lot of people do

1027
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:56,320
including myself then you may have an

1028
00:43:00,210 --> 00:42:58,000
isolated believe ribbon level that's

1029
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:00,220
high means that if you have alcohol or

1030
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:03,610
if you're having paracetamol that your

1031
00:43:08,250 --> 00:43:05,410
eyes will start to go a little bit of a

1032
00:43:10,140 --> 00:43:08,260
shade of yellow because that's just how

1033
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,150
it your liver is a little bit slack at

1034
00:43:15,090 --> 00:43:12,880
Mets have a lousy bilirubin but um if

1035
00:43:16,350 --> 00:43:15,100
all of your liver enzymes are up then

1036
00:43:18,270 --> 00:43:16,360
that's not going to get big kill bears

1037
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:18,280
and then you could have hepatitis or

1038
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:21,570
alcoholic hepatitis or non-alcoholic

1039
00:43:26,130 --> 00:43:22,690
liver

1040
00:43:27,690 --> 00:43:26,140
weird and wonderful things that can

1041
00:43:30,750 --> 00:43:27,700
cause problems with liver so we've got

1042
00:43:32,730 --> 00:43:30,760
hepatitis D yet or not yeah episode is

1043
00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:32,740
around it's mainly in prasada way up to

1044
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:36,100
FG but usually hepatitis B comes with

1045
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:38,710
appetite as does hepatitis D comes with

1046
00:43:43,710 --> 00:43:41,890
hepatitis B they usually associated this

1047
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:43,720
hepatitis B as well I think F was a

1048
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:47,170
furphy but yeah they're very rare but

1049
00:43:53,370 --> 00:43:50,160
they do happen okay well I did have my

1050
00:43:54,210 --> 00:43:53,380
vaccinations for shingles they're very

1051
00:43:56,190 --> 00:43:54,220
good very good

1052
00:43:58,440 --> 00:43:56,200
there is another exciting vaccine that's

1053
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,450
a little bit more effective the vaccine

1054
00:44:02,130 --> 00:44:00,400
that we're using at the moment may be

1055
00:44:03,630 --> 00:44:02,140
between sort of like thirty to forty

1056
00:44:07,470 --> 00:44:03,640
percent effective depending on what your

1057
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:07,480
ages and yeah there's a new vaccine

1058
00:44:11,790 --> 00:44:08,710
coming out later on this year that's

1059
00:44:13,230 --> 00:44:11,800
been used on trial on Americans always

1060
00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:13,240
love it when they trial drugs on

1061
00:44:18,180 --> 00:44:15,280
Americans first so that's going to be

1062
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:18,190
about 95% effective out later this year

1063
00:44:21,150 --> 00:44:19,330
so I don't know if we're beyond the

1064
00:44:23,370 --> 00:44:21,160
government schedule we're still looking

1065
00:44:25,740 --> 00:44:23,380
and advocating for that dr. bad one last

1066
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:25,750
question the conversation article in the

1067
00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:29,050
ABC today was talking about the Spanish

1068
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:30,520
flu and they said that most people died

1069
00:44:34,740 --> 00:44:33,040
of secondary infections because there

1070
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:34,750
wasn't really good antibiotics around in

1071
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:37,810
the 1918 so you don't have anything to

1072
00:44:41,490 --> 00:44:39,250
worry about from the Spanish flu do you

1073
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:41,500
think that's something for complacency

1074
00:44:46,890 --> 00:44:44,650
or not it depends we've got vaccinations

1075
00:44:49,230 --> 00:44:46,900
now we've got antibiotics but a lot of

1076
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:49,240
people who get influenza they may have

1077
00:44:52,980 --> 00:44:51,040
an inflamed lung they may not be able to

1078
00:44:54,540 --> 00:44:52,990
breathe properly they can get pooling of

1079
00:44:56,340 --> 00:44:54,550
secretions and they can get bacteria

1080
00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:56,350
there then they can get a bacterial

1081
00:44:58,940 --> 00:44:56,940
pneumonia

1082
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,950
that's probably the most likely thing

1083
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:00,480
that they were sort of making an

1084
00:45:05,390 --> 00:45:02,910
association with a lot of people these

1085
00:45:07,010 --> 00:45:05,400
days like kids are vaccinated against

1086
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:07,020
streptococcus we have a pneumococcal

1087
00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:10,650
vaccine people over the age of 50 if

1088
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:12,510
you're Aboriginal or if you're over the

1089
00:45:18,650 --> 00:45:15,570
age of 65 if you're not original there's

1090
00:45:21,380 --> 00:45:18,660
a vaccination for pneumococcus but but

1091
00:45:23,570 --> 00:45:21,390
that's not 100% effective no vaccines

1092
00:45:28,070 --> 00:45:23,580
100% effective and for God's sake put a

1093
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,080
decent jacket on man how would you rate

1094
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:30,720
dr. Brad tonight Oh 11 out of 10 every

1095
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:32,490
time I'm so disappointed

1096
00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:33,810
like the whole doctor shopping things

1097
00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:36,300
over well I just think you're gonna have

1098
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:38,700
to wear a variety of disguises that's

1099
00:45:44,030 --> 00:45:41,280
true the mustache yeah exactly mustache

1100
00:45:45,620 --> 00:45:44,040
wigs you've got a message for people out

1101
00:45:47,530 --> 00:45:45,630
there to do something with their phones

1102
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:47,540
so if they're dying we know who they are

1103
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:50,850
yeah so it's been a few occasions now

1104
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:53,130
where I've seen patients coming in to

1105
00:45:57,260 --> 00:45:55,200
Edie who are basically at the third of

1106
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:57,270
death and it's impossible to know who

1107
00:45:59,540 --> 00:45:58,050
they are if they haven't got

1108
00:46:03,290 --> 00:45:59,550
identification but they've almost always

1109
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:03,300
got a smartphone but you get that kind

1110
00:46:06,050 --> 00:46:04,800
of scenario where doctors are going

1111
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:06,060
through their smartphone they can't

1112
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:08,640
unlock it but they can use Siri and

1113
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:10,890
they're going on Siri call mum call dad

1114
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:11,910
and nothing's working

1115
00:46:15,290 --> 00:46:13,680
whereas on most smart phones nowadays

1116
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:15,300
you have a feature where you can swipe

1117
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:16,770
across even without unlocking it and

1118
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:18,240
they'll tell you you can have your blood

1119
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:19,890
type in there you can have any allergies

1120
00:46:23,810 --> 00:46:21,570
any medications and you can also have an

1121
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:23,820
emergency contact to call otherwise what

1122
00:46:26,570 --> 00:46:24,960
happens is you don't find out what's

1123
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:26,580
happened until after they've maybe

1124
00:46:30,020 --> 00:46:28,770
passed away well I've got mine set up

1125
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:30,030
like that what do you think I'm allergic

1126
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:37,650
to I'm gonna go with but bad music oh no

1127
00:46:43,730 --> 00:46:39,780
I love the Electric Light Orchestra love

1128
00:46:45,290 --> 00:46:43,740
it there's a drug I'm allergic to it's

1129
00:46:53,260 --> 00:46:45,300
fairly common penicillin

1130
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:53,270
yes yes smell it Spandau or Duran Duran

1131
00:47:00,020 --> 00:46:57,210
look neither although I do have a

1132
00:47:02,330 --> 00:47:00,030
problem with the pig bag sometimes pig

1133
00:47:04,450 --> 00:47:02,340
bag b-sides not good but Richard doesn't

1134
00:47:06,250 --> 00:47:04,460
understand this I should shut up

1135
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:06,260
and well so that's it for skeptics in

1136
00:47:10,930 --> 00:47:08,480
the pub all sorts of wild stuff going on

1137
00:47:13,870 --> 00:47:10,940
people drinking people running people

1138
00:47:15,490 --> 00:47:13,880
running around doctor bread putting his

1139
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:15,500
jacket on and off and on and off

1140
00:47:20,410 --> 00:47:18,050
repeatedly but the next one is the 12th

1141
00:47:22,030 --> 00:47:20,420
of July for a special guests here

1142
00:47:30,810 --> 00:47:22,040
Thursday 12th of July

1143
00:47:30,820 --> 00:47:37,079
[Music]

1144
00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:39,430
hi this is Ben Radford and this is

1145
00:47:43,269 --> 00:47:41,089
Pascual Romero from the squaring the

1146
00:47:45,130 --> 00:47:43,279
strange podcast every week my co-host

1147
00:47:47,529 --> 00:47:45,140
and I cast a skeptical eye on a

1148
00:47:49,479 --> 00:47:47,539
different topic monsters ghosts demons

1149
00:47:51,579 --> 00:47:49,489
mysteries and even current events are

1150
00:47:53,620 --> 00:47:51,589
dissected and discussed with a fun

1151
00:47:55,390 --> 00:47:53,630
unscripted and skeptical take that

1152
00:47:57,849 --> 00:47:55,400
you're sure to enjoy - is squirting

1153
00:48:13,740 --> 00:47:57,859
strange calm iTunes or on your favorite

1154
00:48:18,460 --> 00:48:16,180
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1155
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:18,470
zone and those people coming along to

1156
00:48:21,820 --> 00:48:20,210
skeptics in the pub tonight here in

1157
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:21,830
Berkeley I look forward to seeing you

1158
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:24,290
there and I look forward to seeing those

1159
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:27,680
people coming along tomorrow to skeptic

1160
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:30,530
Alcon all the links on the show notes

1161
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:34,880
and I might even bend some spoons next

1162
00:48:42,580 --> 00:48:38,090
week in Bend a big THANK YOU to those

1163
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:42,590
people still sending me in very kind

1164
00:48:47,260 --> 00:48:45,050
messages about reaching the 500th

1165
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:47,270
episode of the skeptic zone and thank

1166
00:48:51,970 --> 00:48:49,330
you to those people who continue to

1167
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:51,980
support the skeptic zone via PayPal

1168
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:54,890
patreon at skeptic zone TV and thank you

1169
00:48:59,800 --> 00:48:57,170
to those people who recently have come

1170
00:49:03,220 --> 00:48:59,810
on board to support the show much

1171
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:03,230
appreciated and your contributions no

1172
00:49:08,170 --> 00:49:05,570
matter how small mean the show keeps

1173
00:49:09,550 --> 00:49:08,180
going coming up on next week's show I

1174
00:49:12,930 --> 00:49:09,560
hope to bring you interviews from

1175
00:49:15,550 --> 00:49:12,940
skeptics in the pub here in the Bay Area

1176
00:49:18,820 --> 00:49:15,560
highlights and interviews from skeptic

1177
00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:18,830
al Khan coming up tomorrow as I speak

1178
00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:22,910
and maybe maybe the very first audio

1179
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:26,510
recording of a Bigfoot if we're all very

1180
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:28,490
lucky but for this week

1181
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:30,290
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1182
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:37,370
from the Bay Area San Francisco you've

1183
00:49:41,790 --> 00:49:39,170
been listening to the skeptic zone

1184
00:49:48,460 --> 00:49:41,800
podcast please visit our website at

1185
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:48,470
wwlp.com tax and to access the bat

1186
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:51,970
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1187
00:49:57,910 --> 00:49:54,650
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1188
00:50:00,190 --> 00:49:57,920
on twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1189
00:50:01,550 --> 00:50:00,200
facebook page or leave a review on

1190
00:50:03,770 --> 00:50:01,560
itunes

1191
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:03,780
you can also support the sceptic zone

1192
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:07,170
via patreon or PayPal the sceptic zone

1193
00:50:12,260 --> 00:50:09,890
podcast is an independent production

1194
00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:12,270
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1195
00:50:16,730 --> 00:50:14,400
sceptic zone are not necessarily those

1196
00:50:18,570 --> 00:50:16,740
of Australian skeptics or any other